Article 2. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as [...] language [...]

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Foundation-l word cloud without headers and quotes, Oct. 5, 2010

Virgilio A. P. Machado <>
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:01:35

Ever since Mark Williamson posted the message from Manuel Coutinho suggesting the creation of a new version of Wikipedia in Portuguese from Portugal, I have wondered if this list is the best place to discuss this matter.

This is a very serious and recurring issue:




It also causes a lot of conflicts and animosity. There are heated discussions, with passionate and inflammatory statements that lead to exaggeration and uncorroborated «truths».

Perhaps the reason the issue keeps popping up is that, although it has been extensively «discussed», it has not been properly addressed, much less solved.

Perhaps the question is not the creation of a new version of Wikipedia, but to make the Portuguese Wikipedia appealing to all readers and writers (editors) of the Portuguese language. There might be solutions and proposals to address this problem which have been kept from seeing the light of day, for untold reasons.

It might be worthwhile to open a page where the discussion could be centralized. It would be nice if the page could be bilingual, with one section in English, to open the discussion to the wider Wikimedia community, and another in Portuguese, for those who lack enough command of the English language to participate in the broader discussion.

If anyone would be so kind as to suggest what that page might be and where it could be created, I would be more than happy to participate. Some statements have already been made in this list that require clarification.


Virgilio A. P. Machado

Thomas Dalton
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:50:46

On 22 March 2010 19:01, Virgilio A. P. Machado <vam at> wrote: > Perhaps the reason the issue keeps popping up is that, although it has been extensively «discussed», it has not been properly addressed, much less solved.

I think the reason it has never been addressed is that nobody outside the Portuguese community can see a problem. It all seems to be a lot of fuss about nothing. [...] the most obvious one-wiki solution is the one used by the English Wikipedia, namely: stop complaining and just write encyclopaedia articles. We're not going to indulge a community engaged in a childish argument about nothing.

Virgilio A. P. Machado <>
Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:51:29

There is proof buried in this mailing list and in my mailboxes of utter indifference, if not outright contempt for the problems of a Wikipedia in a "foreign" language, from the subscribers of this list all the way up to the highest levels of responsibility at the Wikimedia Foundation. A simple way to state it might be: you guys have a problem, you sort it out or don't bother us, and we won't bother you. A lot of people will pay lip service to the common good, but will not even budge when they have a chance to do something about it. Never underestimate the results of some gentle persuasion, specially coming from those who hold the keys to all the hardware that's being used as a playground by a few.

Please understand that a lot of people - really a lot of very powerful people - don't give a hoot about the Portuguese Wikipedia or any of its problems, and since I have proof and I haven't seen proof to the contrary anywhere, I rest my case.


All I have asked for is the suggestion of a page. You can't find a single word about that request in all that has been written. Not even: what if that page is created and nobody contributes? That is a possibility. There's also the possibility that whatever conclusion is reached it will not be implemented by those who hold the power in the Portuguese Wikipedia or the keys in the Wikimedia Foundation. There's also the possibility that if someone had several million dollars to spare, any solution that would please that person would be implemented. So you see, most things can be had for a price, and all I have asked was the suggestion of a page. I wonder what it takes to have that.


Virgilio A. P. Machado

Human rights

Straat zonder haat1

No Hate Street

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [...]. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories."[1]


Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

[...] the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,


Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,


Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance [...]

Article 1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2. Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as [...] language [...]

Article 7. [...] All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

Article 28. Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

Article 29. (1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible. (2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society. (3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

Article 30. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any [...] group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.